1. Do you think comics are a children’s or adult genre/media?
2. How does Farr (1991) justify Tintin’s appeal to adults?
3. According to the second Farr extract (p.50-59), how did Hergé research China for The Blue Lotus? How might Hergé’s The Blue Lotus address or relate to the issue of what Said (1977)terms ‘orientalism’?
4.Does Varnum (2001) define the difference between a cartoon, comics, and graphic novel?
5. According to Varnum, what distinguishes comics from other media?
6. How and why are comics becoming more accepted as an art form? Can/should they be regarded as a literary genre?
7. What do you think of McCarthy's(2006) ideas about Tintin?
Hi everyone I hope you are good. I’d like to start our discussion about “Tintin” according to question: I have to say that the all twenty-four story of the adventures of Tintin have a strong influence on comics, particularly in Europe. I think the comic genre is interesting for both generations. It is interesting to children from view of fiction and illustrates story. In the other hand, adults enjoy the many satirical references to the history and politics of the 20th century. The Blue Lotus: It is story about trip Tintin to China. Meanwhile, China in the 1930s was under rule by Japanese and Western courtiers. There for, the Shanghai was divided into two parts; one of the parts was occupied by the Japanese army and second part by the British and American troops. Author tried to inform the European public about the oppression suffered by the Chinese under colonial rule. As Michael Farr said the Tintin stories have written for “all young people aged from seven to seventy-seven”. Moreover he said that “The adult will additionally find political satire and parody, puns and prescience” (p, 5, Critical Reader 2008, AUT). In addition, we do not must forget the role of Chong chong-jen. He introduced Herge to Chinese culture and the techniques of Chinese art. As a result of this experience appeal “The Blue Lotus” I will continue to answer to other questions later. I will be pleased if I know your opinion.
I’ like to add a little detail to the answer for Question 2, although there is overlap with Bahram.
Farr (1991) analyzes about Tintin’s appeal to adult that “the stories were anchored firmly in fact. There was additionally a topicality of subject which somehow did not date, and there was Herge’s remarkable ability to anticipate world events” (Critical Reader 2008, p.4). Moreover, “by devising a character who would appeal to children as much as grown-ups” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5), then “each finds their own level of understanding and appreciation” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5). Therefore, “the adult will additionally find political satire and parody, puns and prescience” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5), although “the child will be gripped by the excitement of Tintin, the comedy, even farce” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5).
Farr (1991) also points out an additional feature of appealing to adult. “The extraordinarily accurate detail of every story […] was a key ingredient of the successful formula” (Critical Reader 2008, p.4). “The perfectionism of detail of the Tintin stories, the real of fictitious but thoroughly convincing settings, mirrored the world as seen by Herge and his public” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5). “It is surprisingly widely applicable to everyday life” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5).
I’d like to add the following three points to the answer for the first half of Question 3.
"A priest, Father Gosset, who was chaplain to the Chinese students at the University of Louvain, wrote to Herge urging him to avoid resorting to clichés by having a closer look at the Chinese and doing his research properly” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7), and “Herge willingly took the advice” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7).
Herge was realized his prejudices against China by Chang Chong-chen, who was introduced to Herge by Father Gosser. Then Herge strove to sweep away of it before learning Chinese culture and the technique of art from Chang as Bahram mentioned.
"Chang also opened Herge’s eyes to the distance politics of Asia” (Critical Reader 2008, p.8), and Herge “looked further for pictures of the real China he was to portray and did not merely reproduce what he found” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7). Therefore, Herge accurately grasped the current affairs of the time.
This posting is my answer for the latter half of Question 3.
Herge’s “The Blue Lotus” addresses European prejudices against Chinese, which Herge had also had before he met Chang. These prejudices are that “lots of Europeans still believe…that all Chinese are cunning and cruel and wear pigtails, are always inventing tortures, and eating rotten eggs and swallow’s nests…The same stupid Europeans are quite convinced that all Chinese have tiny feet, and even now little Chinese girls suffer agonies with bandages designed to prevent their feet developing normally. They’re even convinced that Chinese rivers are full of unwanted babies, thrown in when they are born” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7).
These prejudices seem to be related to the issue of what Said (1977) terms ‘Orientalism’. Said (1977, p.87) points out that “the Orient was almost a European invention”. “The Orient is an idea that has a history and a tradition of thought, imagery, and vocabulary that have given it reality and presence in and for the West” (Said 1977, p.89), but the detailed logic is governed not simply by empirical reality (Said 1977). Although some of the information Herge presented is true and Chinese eat rotten eggs and swallow’s nests as their traditional food, I think there is European hidden ideology that only their taste, texts and values are orthodoxies and canons.
No, Varnum (2001) does not define the difference between a cartoon, comics and graphic novel.
In fact, Varnum (2001, pp. xvi- xvii) accounts that “comic strips, comic books, graphic novels, single-panel cartoons, wordless comics, animated cartoons, and various other kinds of visual texts bear family resemblances to one another. None of the members of the family shares one feature in common with all the others, but any two share common features”. However, Varnum (2001) treats all of these as comics in his essay, and then, Varnum (2001) illustrates the reason that it is the same way that football, chess, poker, and hide-and-go are all called “games” because they are related to other games in much way.
Comics include “both images and texts, and also such as specialized features as word balloons, zip ribbons, and even the panel frames which enclose scenes or segments of a narrative” (Varnum 2001, p?… (the first page of Varnm’s essay in the Critical reader 2008)).
So for, I think that it depends on the author’s strategies and abilities whether the works evaluate only the children’s enjoyment, adult’s genre or capturing both attention.
Hi Father Gosset and Chang Chong- chen helped Herge to learn a lot about Chinese arts in different aspects.Herge about Chang said that “Chang was an exceptional boy” or “He made me discover and love Chinese poetry, Chinese writing...” (P, 51, critical Readers). Moreover, Chang opened Herge’s eyes to political situation of China at that period. -Comic systematically combines word and pictures. “Words and pictures are like partners in a dance and each one takes turns leading” (P, xiv). Comic is sequence but cartoon is the juxtaposition of words.
Nice to see some good comments for this week. However, I will start from Question 1. (Do you think comics are a children's or adult genre/media?)
In my point of view, it depends whether a child understands the language used, or interested in the structure of the comics. Nevertheless, whatever structure of these kinds of genres,they can be easily accepted by adults, because by reading through the whole story, a very clear message is given like every other novel written in other different genres.
For instance, in Blue Lotus, it is a graphic novel written in 1935 and still appears as a comic genre nowadays, but the message about the adventure of this boy Tintin is very clear and well told by the author.
I’d like to point out Herge’s mistakes as Japanese.
His effort of sweeping away his prejudices of Orient had achieved only against China. Although there was Japan’s surprise ride seven years later on Pearl Harbor, the seller of opium to China at that time is England not Japan. This might be a firm historical fact ...and so on.
I‘m not sure that Herge intended to distort the historical fact or he did not exactly understand the situation of Orient at that time…
Anyway, I think this is the reason that he is not popular in Japan, rather, I have never heard or seen Herge’s works in Japan.
Japanese comics are very popular and there are a lot of studies about them. I hope that Herge’s works are reviewed in Japan too. It will extend the studies of this area and our sights.
Hi kimiko I agree with your explanation about Orientalism according to Edward Said. In addition, I want to say that Orientalism is a manner of regularized or orientalised writing, vision, and study, dominated by imperatives, and ideological biases ostensibly suited to the orient. It is the image of the Orient expressed as an entire system of thought and scholarship (Wiki).
How does Farr (1991) justify Tintin's appeal to adults?
Michael Farr has clearly explained the life of the author, Herge, and also justify the autor's views and notions of how to create a novel that was to become better known than any.
As Farr suggests that in Tintin's universial appeal, he has a rock solid foundation in reality, enabling him to surpass fashion, age and nationality.
Farr also reveals that Herge's aim of creating Tintin's adventures is to be read by all young people aged from seven to seventy seven. Everyone finds their own level of understanding and appreation. Moreover, according to Farr (1991),the appeal is self generating, for in due course the children will become adults, and then become parents, allowing the Tintin tradition to be carried on from one generation to another.
In addition, the adults will find political satire and parody, puns and prescience. Farr also suggests that if adults may have read Tintin's adventures many times and still discover something new, they may have read them again and again, and the adventures, like their hero will never end (Farr 1991, p. 4).
According to the second Farr extract (p. 50-59), how did Herge research China for the Blue Lotus?
According to Farr (191), Belgian missionaries, so active in the Congo, were spreading Christianity in distant China, inspired by their teaching, a number of young Chinese (p.51). A priest by the name of Father Gosset, who was chaplain to the Chinese students, at the University of Louvain, wrote to Herge to have a close look and a proper research about China, as by that time, parts of the mainland were occupied by Japanese troops. Herge willingly took the advice and he was introduced by Father Gosset to Chang Chong-Chen,a promising sculpture student at the Brussels Academic des Beaux-Arts, and from there, the two instantly took to each other. Their friendship was so important and according to Farr (1991), long dfiscussions followed gave Herge a true taste of China. A lifelong fascnating with China was awakened by Chang like its complex history, geography, language, literature, philosophy and religion, all of which was revelatory to a highly receptive Herge. Moreover, he learned about Chinese art and the techniques of traditional painting, as well as revealing to him the Chinese culture and he was so fascinated. Therefore, from that point, Herge was to say, "Chang was an exceptional boy. He made me discover and love Chinese poetry. Chinese writing - The wind and the bone, that is to say the wind of inspiration and the bone of a firm drawing line. For me, it was a revelation. I owe to him too a better understanding of the sense of things: friendship, poetry and nature. It was at the time of the Blue Lotus that I discovered a new world" (Farr 1991, p.51).
I’m not sure that Herge’s work is “a mastery of plot and symbol, theme and sub-text far superior to that displayed by most ‘real’ novelists” (McCarthy p.32), because I’m also not sure what works of “most ‘real’ novelists” are mentioned in this sentence. However, I agree with his suggestion that “to confuse comics with literature would be a mistake” (McCarthy p.32), because “the medium ‘takes up an original and autonomous ground between drawing and writing” (McCarthy p.32). Then, “mixing images and words, the medium can turn things into language and language into a things” (McCarthy pp.20-21).
This posting is my answer for the latter half of Question 6.
I think comics should not be regarded as a literary genre. The reason is that I have agreed with McCarthy’s suggestion as I mentioned in my previous posting.
This posting is my answer for the part of Question 6 - Why are comics becoming more accepted as an art form?
I think that the following citation from “Introduction, the language of comics” (Varnum & Gibbons 2004) may be one of the answers of this question.
Comics “represent reality to the understanding of an observer and mediate his or her experience of the world. Both words and images shape our perceptions, causing us to see some things and overlook others” (Varnum & Gibbons 2004, p.x). “
Hi Komiko I’d like to say you about question, why the comic accepted as an art. Firstly, I agree with you and to my understanding from the Critical Reader. Comic or graphic novel is an art because of relationships between image and text and with visual language. I have to add that comic is an art but – it is low art (wiki)
21 comments:
Discussion threads:
1. Do you think comics are a children’s or adult genre/media?
2. How does Farr (1991) justify
Tintin’s appeal to adults?
3. According to the second Farr extract (p.50-59), how did Hergé
research China for The Blue Lotus? How might Hergé’s The Blue Lotus address or relate to the issue of what Said (1977)terms ‘orientalism’?
4.Does Varnum (2001) define the difference between a cartoon, comics, and graphic novel?
5. According to Varnum, what distinguishes
comics from other media?
6. How and why are comics becoming more accepted as an art
form? Can/should they be regarded as a literary genre?
7. What do you think of McCarthy's(2006) ideas about Tintin?
Hello Paul!
Nice to be with you again for this semester and hope this would be much easier for me than the last papers.
Cheers!
Hi everyone
I hope you are good. I’d like to start our discussion about “Tintin” according to question:
I have to say that the all twenty-four story of the adventures of Tintin have a strong influence on comics, particularly in Europe. I think the comic genre is interesting for both generations. It is interesting to children from view of fiction and illustrates story. In the other hand, adults enjoy the many satirical references to the history and politics of the 20th century.
The Blue Lotus: It is story about trip Tintin to China.
Meanwhile, China in the 1930s was under rule by Japanese and Western courtiers. There for, the Shanghai was divided into two parts; one of the parts was occupied by the Japanese army and second part by the British and American troops. Author tried to inform the European public about the oppression suffered by the Chinese under colonial rule. As Michael Farr said the Tintin stories have written for “all young people aged from seven to seventy-seven”. Moreover he said that “The adult will additionally find political satire and parody, puns and prescience” (p, 5, Critical Reader 2008, AUT).
In addition, we do not must forget the role of Chong chong-jen. He introduced Herge to Chinese culture and the techniques of Chinese art. As a result of this experience appeal “The Blue Lotus”
I will continue to answer to other questions later. I will be pleased if I know your opinion.
I’ like to add a little detail to the answer for Question 2, although there is overlap with Bahram.
Farr (1991) analyzes about Tintin’s appeal to adult that “the stories were anchored firmly in fact. There was additionally a topicality of subject which somehow did not date, and there was Herge’s remarkable ability to anticipate world events” (Critical Reader 2008, p.4). Moreover, “by devising a character who would appeal to children as much as grown-ups” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5), then “each finds their own level of understanding and appreciation” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5). Therefore, “the adult will additionally find political satire and parody, puns and prescience” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5), although “the child will be gripped by the excitement of Tintin, the comedy, even farce” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5).
Farr (1991) also points out an additional feature of appealing to adult. “The extraordinarily accurate detail of every story […] was a key ingredient of the successful formula” (Critical Reader 2008, p.4). “The perfectionism of detail of the Tintin stories, the real of fictitious but thoroughly convincing settings, mirrored the world as seen by Herge and his public” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5). “It is surprisingly widely applicable to everyday life” (Critical Reader 2008, p.5).
I’d like to add the following three points to the answer for the first half of Question 3.
"A priest, Father Gosset, who was chaplain to the Chinese students at the University of Louvain, wrote to Herge urging him to avoid resorting to clichés by having a closer look at the Chinese and doing his research properly” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7), and “Herge willingly took the advice” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7).
Herge was realized his prejudices against China by Chang Chong-chen, who was introduced to Herge by Father Gosser. Then Herge strove to sweep away of it before learning Chinese culture and the technique of art from Chang as Bahram mentioned.
"Chang also opened Herge’s eyes to the distance politics of Asia” (Critical Reader 2008, p.8), and Herge “looked further for pictures of the real China he was to portray and did not merely reproduce what he found” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7). Therefore, Herge accurately grasped the current affairs of the time.
This posting is my answer for the latter half of Question 3.
Herge’s “The Blue Lotus” addresses European prejudices against Chinese, which Herge had also had before he met Chang. These prejudices are that “lots of Europeans still believe…that all Chinese are cunning and cruel and wear pigtails, are always inventing tortures, and eating rotten eggs and swallow’s nests…The same stupid Europeans are quite convinced that all Chinese have tiny feet, and even now little Chinese girls suffer agonies with bandages designed to prevent their feet developing normally. They’re even convinced that Chinese rivers are full of unwanted babies, thrown in when they are born” (Critical Reader 2008, p.7).
These prejudices seem to be related to the issue of what Said (1977) terms ‘Orientalism’. Said (1977, p.87) points out that “the Orient was almost a European invention”. “The Orient is an idea that has a history and a tradition of thought, imagery, and vocabulary that have given it reality and presence in and for the West” (Said 1977, p.89), but the detailed logic is governed not simply by empirical reality (Said 1977). Although some of the information Herge presented is true and Chinese eat rotten eggs and swallow’s nests as their traditional food, I think there is European hidden ideology that only their taste, texts and values are orthodoxies and canons.
This posting is my answer for Question 4.
No, Varnum (2001) does not define the difference between a cartoon, comics and graphic novel.
In fact, Varnum (2001, pp. xvi- xvii) accounts that “comic strips, comic books, graphic novels, single-panel cartoons, wordless comics, animated cartoons, and various other kinds of visual texts bear family resemblances to one another. None of the members of the family shares one feature in common with all the others, but any two share common features”. However, Varnum (2001) treats all of these as comics in his essay, and then, Varnum (2001) illustrates the reason that it is the same way that football, chess, poker, and hide-and-go are all called “games” because they are related to other games in much way.
This posting is my answer for Question 5.
Comics include “both images and texts, and also such as specialized features as word balloons, zip ribbons, and even the panel frames which enclose scenes or segments of a narrative” (Varnum 2001, p?… (the first page of Varnm’s essay in the Critical reader 2008)).
This posting is my answer for Question 1.
So for, I think that it depends on the author’s strategies and abilities whether the works evaluate only the children’s enjoyment, adult’s genre or capturing both attention.
Hi
Father Gosset and Chang Chong- chen helped Herge to learn a lot about Chinese arts in different aspects.Herge about Chang said that “Chang was an exceptional boy” or “He made me discover and love Chinese poetry, Chinese writing...” (P, 51, critical Readers). Moreover, Chang opened Herge’s eyes to political situation of China at that period.
-Comic systematically combines word and pictures. “Words and pictures are like partners in a dance and each one takes turns leading” (P, xiv). Comic is sequence but cartoon is the juxtaposition of words.
Hi everyone!
Nice to see some good comments for this week. However, I will start from Question 1.
(Do you think comics are a children's or adult genre/media?)
In my point of view, it depends whether a child understands the language used, or interested in the structure of the comics. Nevertheless, whatever structure of these kinds of genres,they can be easily accepted by adults, because by reading through the whole story, a very clear message is given like every other novel written in other different genres.
For instance, in Blue Lotus, it is a graphic novel written in 1935 and still appears as a comic genre nowadays, but the message about the adventure of this boy Tintin is very clear and well told by the author.
O.K. Catch you later bloggers!
I’d like to point out Herge’s mistakes as Japanese.
His effort of sweeping away his prejudices of Orient had achieved only against China. Although there was Japan’s surprise ride seven years later on Pearl Harbor, the seller of opium to China at that time is England not Japan. This might be a firm historical fact ...and so on.
I‘m not sure that Herge intended to distort the historical fact or he did not exactly understand the situation of Orient at that time…
Anyway, I think this is the reason that he is not popular in Japan, rather, I have never heard or seen Herge’s works in Japan.
Japanese comics are very popular and there are a lot of studies about them. I hope that Herge’s works are reviewed in Japan too. It will extend the studies of this area and our sights.
Hi kimiko
I agree with your explanation about Orientalism according to Edward Said. In addition, I want to say that Orientalism is a manner of regularized or orientalised writing, vision, and study, dominated by imperatives, and ideological biases ostensibly suited to the orient. It is the image of the Orient expressed as an entire system of thought and scholarship (Wiki).
Hi everyone!
How does Farr (1991) justify Tintin's appeal to adults?
Michael Farr has clearly explained the life of the author, Herge, and also justify the autor's views and notions of how to create a novel that was to become better known than any.
As Farr suggests that in Tintin's universial appeal, he has a rock solid foundation in reality, enabling him to surpass fashion, age and nationality.
Farr also reveals that Herge's aim of creating Tintin's adventures is to be read by all young people aged from seven to seventy seven. Everyone finds their own level of understanding and appreation. Moreover, according to Farr (1991),the appeal is self generating, for in due course the children will become adults, and then become parents, allowing the Tintin tradition to be carried on from one generation to another.
In addition, the adults will find political satire and parody, puns and prescience. Farr also suggests that if adults may have read Tintin's adventures many times and still discover something new, they may have read them again and again, and the adventures, like their hero will never end (Farr 1991, p. 4).
Hello again!
According to the second Farr extract (p. 50-59), how did Herge research China for the Blue Lotus?
According to Farr (191), Belgian missionaries, so active in the Congo, were spreading Christianity in distant China, inspired by their teaching, a number of young Chinese (p.51). A priest by the name of Father Gosset, who was chaplain to the Chinese students, at the University of Louvain, wrote to Herge to have a close look and a proper research about China, as by that time, parts of the mainland were occupied by Japanese troops.
Herge willingly took the advice and he was introduced by Father Gosset to Chang Chong-Chen,a promising sculpture student at the Brussels Academic des Beaux-Arts, and from there, the two instantly took to each other.
Their friendship was so important and according to Farr (1991), long dfiscussions followed gave Herge a true taste of China.
A lifelong fascnating with China was awakened by Chang like its complex history, geography, language, literature, philosophy and religion, all of which was revelatory to a highly receptive Herge.
Moreover, he learned about Chinese art and the techniques of traditional painting, as well as revealing to him the Chinese culture and he was so fascinated.
Therefore, from that point, Herge was to say, "Chang was an exceptional boy. He made me discover and love Chinese poetry. Chinese writing - The wind and the bone, that is to say the wind of inspiration and the bone of a firm drawing line. For me, it was a revelation. I owe to him too a better understanding of the sense of things: friendship, poetry and nature. It was at the time of the Blue Lotus that I discovered a new world" (Farr 1991, p.51).
This posting is my answer for Question 7.
I’m not sure that Herge’s work is “a mastery of plot and symbol, theme and sub-text far superior to that displayed by most ‘real’ novelists” (McCarthy p.32), because I’m also not sure what works of “most ‘real’ novelists” are mentioned in this sentence. However, I agree with his suggestion that “to confuse comics with literature would be a mistake” (McCarthy p.32), because “the medium ‘takes up an original and autonomous ground between drawing and writing” (McCarthy p.32). Then, “mixing images and words, the medium can turn things into language and language into a things” (McCarthy pp.20-21).
This posting is my answer for the latter half of Question 6.
I think comics should not be regarded as a literary genre. The reason is that I have agreed with McCarthy’s suggestion as I mentioned in my previous posting.
This posting is my answer for the part of Question 6 - Why are comics becoming more accepted as an art form?
I think that the following citation from “Introduction, the language of comics” (Varnum & Gibbons 2004) may be one of the answers of this question.
Comics “represent reality to the understanding of an observer and mediate his or her experience of the world. Both words and images shape our perceptions, causing us to see some things and overlook others” (Varnum & Gibbons 2004, p.x).
“
This posting is my answer for the part of Question 6 - How are comics becoming more accepted as an art form?
I think this can be the part of answer that it has become commonplace to look as comics through lens of semiotics theory (Varnum & Gibbons 2004).
I think the first half of Question 6 have a large scope and is difficult to answer…
Hi Komiko
I’d like to say you about question, why the comic accepted as an art. Firstly, I agree with you and to my understanding from the Critical Reader. Comic or graphic novel is an art because of relationships between image and text and with visual language. I have to add that comic is an art but – it is low art (wiki)
Hi, Bahram:
Thank you your comment.
None the less for your comment, I still think comics have different ground from literature, and they are equivalent in value… Comics are not low art.
What are the criteria for distinguishing high art from low?
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