1. According to Horricks (2004), how have perceptions of comics as a media changed?
2. What does Baetons (2001) mean by ‘monstration’, ‘graphiation’ and the ‘graphiateur’’?
3. What does Khordoc think the Asterix series does better than Hergé’s Tintin?
4. Compare the relationship between images and words differ in Hergé (1933) and Spiegelman’s (2004) works.
5. Discuss your reaction to both The Blue Lotus and the Spiegelman extracts. What is your opinion of them? Can you take 'pleasure in the text' (to quote Roland Barthes)?
'Monstration' Monostration means the comic analysis approach of Philip Marion (1993). His aim is twofold. First, he did a survey of all elements in comics which was divided into three visual aspects; the images, the caption and the mark which are neither directly part of the image not part of the captions (i.e., the balloons, the panel frames). Second, he considered the visual form of all comic elements as 'trace' that is a reflection, a symptom, an index, of the subjectivity of a narrator. Marion’s work is different from his predecessors' who made to isolate the specific elements in comics, as in balloons. Then, Marion considered that non-specific elements as narrative or communication strategies play as important a role in comics as specific elements (Baetens 2001).
Marion (1993) made the distinction between enunciations and enunciators.
'Graphiation' Graphiation is "the graphic and narrative enunciation of the comics" (Baetens 2001, p.147). "In the case of the comics, enunciation is both narrative and visual, since comics are not just an utterance, but a narrative utterance, and consist only of stories, but of stories made by drawings, sometimes wordless but generally completed by word." (Baetons 2001, pp146-147).
'Graphiateur' Graphiateur is the agent responsible for enunciations. "In the case of comics, the enunciator is of course also narrator and a graphic artist" (Baetens 2001, p.147) (i.e., a marker of images, a calligrapher
Khordoc (2001) thinks the Asterix series’ sound effects are better than Hergé’s Tintin include the way of use of the balloon.
Asterix presents that the shape and color of speech balloons contribute to the sound effect. Asterix develops the way of presentation of the narrator’s speech with the different form and color of balloon. “All the balloons in TinTin are rectangular and yellow” (Khordoc 2001, p.164). ”Herge dose not use certain devices to create the impression of sound” (Khordoc 2001, p.164).
Moreover, Asterix attests to the presence of character even when they are not visible. Asterix devises a claver use of typography that represents a foreign language without having to relay on a narrator to state that another language is being speaking. Asterix develops a pictorial symbols accompany test in order to create a tone of voice. (i.e., the small pink and yellow flowers decorating the speech balloon suggest that he is using a sarcastic tone of voice) (Khordoc 2001).
Khordoc (2001, p.173) emphasizes “the ability to create the illusion of sound through visual devices is unique to comics”.
How have perceptions of comics as a media changed (Horricks, 2004)?
According to Horricks (2004), the widespread of comics in the early 1950 was blamed by a lot of people including parents,teachers, politicians, media and even in parliament, also socialists and social liberals. In fact, they want these to be banned.
The question was WHY?
Because comics were believed to be the most vulnerable element of our society at that time, affecting some peole especially children.
However, perceptions of comics have just moved to other media instead of banning.
Horricks believes that, many writers and artists are now choosing comics as a means of creating serious fiction, autobiography, history and even journalism.
In recent decades, the graphic novel has become an increasingly important literary form, and according to Horricks, the distinction between the graphic novel and the traditional prose is becoming increasingly blurred.
Comics are believed to be widely studied in universities around the world nowadays,
Here is my reaction to the Blue Lotus (question 5)
Having not been the biggest fan of comics/graphic novels when growing up i found reading the Blue Lotus a great experience.
I have read many books of many types of genres in the past however when it comes to graphic novels i usualy looked the other way. I can see how children get so easily hooked on the series TinTin. But i also see how easy it is for adults to enjoy them just as much if not even more.
There seems to be ''a lot more to it'' when you read the Blue Lotus. I was able to pick up very clear views of China and its politics from the author.
Overall i got great pleasure from reading the text. the depth of art and skill in story telling is amazing
Before answering for Question 5, I’m troubled to answer for Question 4 that is about the relationship between images and words differ in Herge (1993) and Spiegelmam’s (2004) works. And then, I think this has a direct relationship the answer for Question 5 to “discuss your reaction to both The Blue Lotus and the Spiegelman extracts”.
I’ d like to hear your opinion for Question 4 and your reaction to the Spiegelman extracts, too.
Hi Kimiko thank you for your explanation about monstration and graphication. I also try to describe my underastanding.Marion's analysis and the introduction of the concept of 'graphiation' in particular, allows for a more systematic and theoretically sound approach of such an elusive element as graphic style. Within this framework, a comic is considered an effect of graphic and narrative enunciation. In short, the comic is the product of a 'graphiator'. The latter should be understood as an abstract agent leaving traces of its graphiation on the comics' page and should in no case be directly linked to the author. However, despite Marion's precautions and perhaps due to some of the psychoanalytic premises underpinning some of his theses, his work has allowed for some preposterous autobiographical readings in which graphic style is exclusively seen as symptomatic of the individual author. According to Baetens, this danger that seems inherent in Marion's theory should be averted by renewed efforts to refine the theoretical framework and by circumscribing the concepts more precisely(Baetens 2001).
I agree with your summary of the percepions of comics in the period of 1950s for Qestion 1. But I’d like to add the perception of comics in those days.
It’s rare today to find such fears attached to Supeman, although the same cannot be said of gangsta rap, television, the internet or video games.
i.e.,
Graphic novels have been awarded the Pulitzer Prize and the Guardian First Book Award.
There are courcesde dedicated to comics in English and Art History university departments in America (Horrics 2004).
Horrics (2004, p.3) says, “Troubadours, poets, the theatre and, of course, the novel have all been the target of moral panics at various times in the past”. It “is the tendency of contempotsry commentators to dismiss all of these art forms as unworthy of ‘serious consideration of aethetic grounds’”.
Baetons (2001), uses the term narrative and the term monstrative to distinguish between the types of narrative enunciation. He further reveals that in filmic enunciation when the events of a story are presented to the public by means of a narrator, it is called narrative. However, when events are performed by characters themselves in a situation in which the story seems to narrate itself without any narrator’s intervention, it is called monstrative, and this always happens in movies.
Baetons also use the terms graphiation and graphiateur to distinguish between the different types of enunciation and enunciators in comics. He says that comics are stories made by drawings, sometimes wordless, but generally completed by words. Therefore, the enunciator is a narrator and a graphic artist together.
What does Khordoc think the Asterix series does better than Herge’s Tintin?
According to Khordoc’s opinion, Herge, the author of Tintin adventures has not displayed the full range of sounds which can be represented graphically. This means, this series is not as audible, or as noisy as others, and may be related to the fact that Tintin is grounded in a fairly intricated plot, and also it is more highly narrated, though indeed the characters are the main narrators.
But in the case of Asterix, the story, despite certain variations, is fairly similar in most of the episodes! So, the representation of sound is one of the numerous strategies in this comic, which contributes to creating humor, which is the series’ main purpose.
Compare the relationship between images and words differ in Herge (1993) and Spigelman's (2004) works?
We have talked about Tintin in class and we believe that, it could appeal to both adults and children, as images are obviosly defined by words, in a graphic novel style.
However, in In The Shadow of No Towers, it seems difficult and a bit restrained. This will probably cause distraction for children because images and words are a bit complicated for them.
I believe that, if we read a book, we don't want to be stuck, due to hard vocabularies and implicit or vague images, so I prefer reading Herge's text than Spiegelman's extract.
This is my opinion and my reaction about The Blue Lotus and The Spiegelman's extract.
In the Blue Lotus, images and words, as I have said above, are delievered in a very simple way, even though it is talking about political and some social issues.
As I read Spiegelman's extract, images and words were a bit dificult and straight foward. In fact, children will find this boring to read, and hard for them to understand.
Moreover, there is also one image in the whole text, which is enlarge at the back page, and the author is expressing his own feelings of the September 11 tragedy, which is sometimes serious to discuss.
Therefore, to me, I like The Blue Lotus more than Spiegelman's text. How about you ladies and gentlemen?
Hi kimiko and Poe About question 3 I agree with your explanation. I want to add that khordoc thinks that some comics such as Tintin are a notable exception and printed in capital letters. Also the words are not in paragraph form, a text is written hand-drawn. Moreover, the large bold letters show the volume of the character’s voice. It means the direct relationship between the size of the letters and the volume of the voice. But Khordoc believes that firstly, the important aspect of Asterix is its language and also “symbol for sound in general, and other symbols, graphic and pictorial, contribute to the representation of more specific types of sounds” ( P, 173)
I entirely agree with your opinion about the use of words of Herge’s text and Spigelman’s extract. I can understand Herge’s text without dictionary. On the contrary my understanding of Spigelma’s extract is still a little vague, although I had looked up lots of unknown words in dictionary.
On the relationship between image and words, I think that the positions of the images in their works are completely different. Herge’s images are interacting with words presented in his works. On the other hand, the images in Spiegelman’s extract are just illustration, and his words do not depend on the images.
I entirely agree with your opinion that you like The Blue Lotus more, too.
I can enjoy Herge’s text, although I think that the story include a little his prejudices against Japan, and I'm Japanese.
On Spiegelman’s extract, I think I have finally just reconfirmed my poor English skills.
Your mention to Spiegelman’s extract, which is “hard vocabularies and implicit or vague images”, has lightened my feeling because I can think that this extract also difficult for people whose first language is English.
16 comments:
1. According to Horricks (2004), how have
perceptions of comics as a media changed?
2. What does Baetons (2001) mean by
‘monstration’, ‘graphiation’ and the ‘graphiateur’’?
3. What does Khordoc think the Asterix
series does better than Hergé’s Tintin?
4. Compare the relationship between images and
words differ in Hergé (1933) and Spiegelman’s (2004) works.
5. Discuss your reaction to both The Blue Lotus and the Spiegelman extracts. What is your opinion of them? Can you take 'pleasure in the text' (to quote Roland Barthes)?
This posting is my answer for Question 2.
'Monstration'
Monostration means the comic analysis approach of Philip Marion (1993). His aim is twofold. First, he did a survey of all elements in comics which was divided into three visual aspects; the images, the caption and the mark which are neither directly part of the image not part of the captions (i.e., the balloons, the panel frames). Second, he considered the visual form of all comic elements as 'trace' that is a reflection, a symptom, an index, of the subjectivity of a narrator. Marion’s work is different from his predecessors' who made to isolate the specific elements in comics, as in balloons. Then, Marion considered that non-specific elements as narrative or communication strategies play as important a role in comics as specific elements (Baetens 2001).
Marion (1993) made the distinction between enunciations and enunciators.
'Graphiation'
Graphiation is "the graphic and narrative enunciation of the comics" (Baetens 2001, p.147).
"In the case of the comics, enunciation is both narrative and visual, since comics are not just an utterance, but a narrative utterance, and consist only of stories, but of stories made by drawings, sometimes wordless but generally completed by word." (Baetons 2001, pp146-147).
'Graphiateur'
Graphiateur is the agent responsible for enunciations. "In the case of comics, the enunciator is of course also narrator and a graphic artist" (Baetens 2001, p.147) (i.e., a marker of images, a calligrapher
This posting is my answer for Question 3.
Khordoc (2001) thinks the Asterix series’ sound effects are better than Hergé’s Tintin include the way of use of the balloon.
Asterix presents that the shape and color of speech balloons contribute to the sound effect. Asterix develops the way of presentation of the narrator’s speech with the different form and color of balloon. “All the balloons in TinTin are rectangular and yellow” (Khordoc 2001, p.164). ”Herge dose not use certain devices to create the impression of sound” (Khordoc 2001, p.164).
Moreover, Asterix attests to the presence of character even when they are not visible. Asterix devises a claver use of typography that represents a foreign language without having to relay on a narrator to state that another language is being speaking. Asterix develops a pictorial symbols accompany test in order to create a tone of voice. (i.e., the small pink and yellow flowers decorating the speech balloon suggest that he is using a sarcastic tone of voice) (Khordoc 2001).
Khordoc (2001, p.173) emphasizes “the ability to create the illusion of sound through visual devices is unique to comics”.
Hi everyone!
How have perceptions of comics as a media changed (Horricks, 2004)?
According to Horricks (2004), the widespread of comics in the early 1950 was blamed by a lot of people including parents,teachers, politicians, media and even in parliament, also socialists and social liberals. In fact, they want these to be banned.
The question was WHY?
Because comics were believed to be the most vulnerable element of our society at that time, affecting some peole especially children.
However, perceptions of comics have just moved to other media instead of banning.
Horricks believes that, many writers and artists are now choosing comics as a means of creating serious fiction, autobiography, history and even journalism.
In recent decades, the graphic novel has become an increasingly important literary form, and according to Horricks, the distinction between the graphic novel and the traditional prose is becoming increasingly blurred.
Comics are believed to be widely studied in universities around the world nowadays,
Here is my reaction to the Blue Lotus (question 5)
Having not been the biggest fan of comics/graphic novels when growing up i found reading the Blue Lotus a great experience.
I have read many books of many types of genres in the past however when it comes to graphic novels i usualy looked the other way. I can see how children get so easily hooked on the series TinTin. But i also see how easy it is for adults to enjoy them just as much if not even more.
There seems to be ''a lot more to it'' when you read the Blue Lotus. I was able to pick up very clear views of China and its politics from the author.
Overall i got great pleasure from reading the text. the depth of art and skill in story telling is amazing
Hi Louie:
Before answering for Question 5, I’m troubled to answer for Question 4 that is about the relationship between images and words differ in Herge (1993) and Spiegelmam’s (2004) works. And then, I think this has a direct relationship the answer for Question 5 to “discuss your reaction to both The Blue Lotus and the Spiegelman extracts”.
I’ d like to hear your opinion for Question 4 and your reaction to the Spiegelman extracts, too.
Hi Kimiko
thank you for your explanation about monstration and graphication. I also try to describe my underastanding.Marion's analysis and the introduction of the concept of 'graphiation' in particular, allows for a more systematic and theoretically sound approach of such an elusive element as graphic style. Within this framework, a comic is considered an effect of graphic and narrative enunciation. In short, the comic is the product of a 'graphiator'. The latter should be understood as an abstract agent leaving traces of its graphiation on the comics' page and should in no case be directly linked to the author. However, despite Marion's precautions and perhaps due to some of the psychoanalytic premises underpinning some of his theses, his work has allowed for some preposterous autobiographical readings in which graphic style is exclusively seen as symptomatic of the individual author. According to Baetens, this danger that seems inherent in Marion's theory should be averted by renewed efforts to refine the theoretical framework and by circumscribing the concepts more precisely(Baetens 2001).
Hi Poeelama:
I agree with your summary of the percepions of comics in the period of 1950s for Qestion 1. But I’d like to add the perception of comics in those days.
It’s rare today to find such fears attached to Supeman, although the same cannot be said of gangsta rap, television, the internet or video games.
i.e.,
Graphic novels have been awarded the Pulitzer Prize and the Guardian First Book Award.
There are courcesde dedicated to comics in English and Art History university departments in America (Horrics 2004).
Horrics (2004, p.3) says, “Troubadours, poets, the theatre and, of course, the novel have all been the target of moral panics at various times in the past”. It “is the tendency of contempotsry commentators to dismiss all of these art forms as unworthy of ‘serious consideration of aethetic grounds’”.
Hi Everyone!
What is monstration, graphiation and graphiateur?
Baetons (2001), uses the term narrative and the term monstrative to distinguish between the types of narrative enunciation. He further reveals that in filmic enunciation when the events of a story are presented to the public by means of a narrator, it is called narrative. However, when events are performed by characters themselves in a situation in which the story seems to narrate itself without any narrator’s intervention, it is called monstrative, and this always happens in movies.
Baetons also use the terms graphiation and graphiateur to distinguish between the different types of enunciation and enunciators in comics. He says that comics are stories made by drawings, sometimes wordless, but generally completed by words. Therefore, the enunciator is a narrator and a graphic artist together.
Hello everybody!
What does Khordoc think the Asterix series does better than Herge’s Tintin?
According to Khordoc’s opinion, Herge, the author of Tintin adventures has not displayed the full range of sounds which can be represented graphically. This means, this series is not as audible, or as noisy as others, and may be related to the fact that Tintin is grounded in a fairly intricated plot, and also it is more highly narrated, though indeed the characters are the main narrators.
But in the case of Asterix, the story, despite certain variations, is fairly similar in most of the episodes! So, the representation of sound is one of the numerous strategies in this comic, which contributes to creating humor, which is the series’ main purpose.
Hi everyone!
Compare the relationship between images and words differ in Herge (1993) and Spigelman's (2004) works?
We have talked about Tintin in class and we believe that, it could appeal to both adults and children, as images are obviosly defined by words, in a graphic novel style.
However, in In The Shadow of No Towers, it seems difficult and a bit restrained. This will probably cause distraction for children because images and words are a bit complicated for them.
I believe that, if we read a book, we don't want to be stuck, due to hard vocabularies and implicit or vague images, so I prefer reading Herge's text than Spiegelman's extract.
What about you guys?
Talofa lava!
This is my opinion and my reaction about The Blue Lotus and The Spiegelman's extract.
In the Blue Lotus, images and words, as I have said above, are delievered in a very simple way, even though it is talking about political and some social issues.
As I read Spiegelman's extract, images and words were a bit dificult and straight foward. In fact, children will find this boring to read, and hard for them to understand.
Moreover, there is also one image in the whole text, which is enlarge at the back page, and the author is expressing his own feelings of the September 11 tragedy, which is sometimes serious to discuss.
Therefore, to me, I like The Blue Lotus more than Spiegelman's text.
How about you ladies and gentlemen?
Please! comment and reveal your opinions!
Hi kimiko and Poe
About question 3 I agree with your explanation. I want to add that khordoc thinks that some comics such as Tintin are a notable exception and printed in capital letters. Also the words are not in paragraph form, a text is written hand-drawn. Moreover, the large bold letters show the volume of the character’s voice. It means the direct relationship between the size of the letters and the volume of the voice. But Khordoc believes that firstly, the important aspect of Asterix is its language and also “symbol for sound in general, and other symbols, graphic and pictorial, contribute to the representation of more specific types of sounds” ( P, 173)
Hi Poeelama:
for Question 4
I entirely agree with your opinion about the use of words of Herge’s text and Spigelman’s extract. I can understand Herge’s text without dictionary. On the contrary my understanding of Spigelma’s extract is still a little vague, although I had looked up lots of unknown words in dictionary.
On the relationship between image and words, I think that the positions of the images in their works are completely different. Herge’s images are interacting with words presented in his works. On the other hand, the images in Spiegelman’s extract are just illustration, and his words do not depend on the images.
Hi Poeelama:
for Question 5
I entirely agree with your opinion that you like The Blue Lotus more, too.
I can enjoy Herge’s text, although I think that the story include a little his prejudices against Japan, and I'm Japanese.
On Spiegelman’s extract, I think I have finally just reconfirmed my poor English skills.
Your mention to Spiegelman’s extract, which is “hard vocabularies and implicit or vague images”, has lightened my feeling because I can think that this extract also difficult for people whose first language is English.
Thank you.
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